Below, please find two of my favorite quotes by Rob Bell. I am increasingly saddened in knowing the number of people who desperately want to know God, yet Rob Bell is holding them captive to his “new kind of Christian[ity]”. Last I heard, Bell’s church was well over 10,000 attendees.
I’ve heard it said that false teachers come in all shapes and sizes.
The two quotes below are from Bell himself.
“We’re rediscovering Christianity as an eastern religion.” http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/november/12.36.html
"I am learning that my tradition includes the rabbis and reformers and revolutionaries and monks and nuns and pastors and writers and philosophers and artists and every person everywhere who has asked big questions of a big God." (Velvet Elvis, Bell)
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46 comments:
It seems as though Rob Bell gets further and further away from scripture as he continues his ministry. This is the problem with a good number of emerging churches. I don't hate the emerging church, but they do play with a line that must not be crossed. Seay, Paggitt, and Bell seem to like to croos the line of staying true to scripture. Yet at the same time I feel like Mark Driscoll and Erwin McManus hold to scripture as they should and they are culturally relevant. This will be a hot topic in the church for a long time!
personally, i think rob bell is just offering his interpretation
i mean he even says that in his book - dont accept his words as the truth, hes just adding his opinion to the conversation
but one of my favorite quotes of his that i just heard recently was in one of his nooma videos - he said "people often confuse religion with God and walk away from them both"
I actually believe Rob Bell is on to something here.
Rob Bell denies that the scriptures are inpired of God(read paragraph 10 of the Christianity Today interview from 2004). In his own words he calls the Bible "of human product and not of divine fiat". Without scripture alone, we're relying on man's opinion (Rob has no problem telling you his)and not the absolute truth of God's Word.
Denying that the scriptures are not inspired, would make Rob heretic (in my opinion)...
Some more heretical quotes by Rob:
This is part of the problem with continually insisting that one of the absolutes of the Christian faith must be a belief that “Scripture alone” is our guide. It sounds nice but it is not true… When people say that all we need is the Bible, it is simply not true. (Rob Bell, Velvet Elvis: Repainting The Christian Faith, p.067,068)
In fact, as the Bells describe it, after launching Mars Hill in 1999, they found themselves increasingly uncomfortable with church. "Life in the church had become so small," Kristen says. "It had worked for me for a long time. Then it stopped working." The Bells started questioning their assumptions about the Bible itself—"discovering the Bible as a human product," as Rob puts it, rather than the product of divine fiat. "The Bible is still in the center for us," Rob says, "but it's a different kind of center. We want to embrace mystery, rather than conquer it."
"I grew up thinking that we've figured out the Bible," Kristen says, "that we knew what it means. Now I have no idea what most of it means. And yet I feel like life is big again—like life used to be black and white, and now it's in color." (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/november/12.36.html)
Sorry dude. None of these quotes that you found contradict the reality that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. You're trying really hard to make it seem like somebody is not "Christian" but you aren't listening to Bell's words with an open mind. Put youself with eyes and ears of unberlievers... then you may understand Bell's approach.
As someone who grew up in the area around Mars Hill, I have actually looked into the history of Rob's church. Apparently, what he says in Velvet Elvis is pretty much dead wrong. He was a pastor at another church in Grand Rapids, though an assistant one, and the church was fairly large. He went to found a new church and had a lot of the members come with him. That contradicts a bit of what he says.
Rob likes to make issues out of nonissues. If his book was going to help Christians, it should have included a clear and easy to understand message of spreading the Gospel and growing in a relationship with Christ. As it stands, he actually just confused me a lot of the time by either contraditing himself within the book, or contradicting what I know to be true in real life.
As far as religion goes (Rob's quote on confusing religion and God), it can be defined as the entire set of things we do and believe in relation to God. In other words, our relationship with God and the things we observe in our beliefs and with each other, is our religion. Without a 'religion' (a set of moral standards, etc), we wouldn't have a whole lot, because our moral standards dictate our actions. Now, our moral standards come from our relationship's personally with Christ, but they are moral standards nonetheless.
Great discussion. I agree with the 11/12/07 at 10:38 pm post (hard to refer when people use anonymous). Well said though.
I've read all of these comments, and while being a follower of Christ, I see truth in Rob's words. He went to school. He knows about all the different religions out there (even those non-Christian). He know the rules and laws for the different religions. He knows the Scriptures. If you know history & theology then you'd understand things. You all just seem to know what YOU know to be truth & not what's truth in reality. That is what he's trying to get away from... he's trying to spread the truth to all those that don't know (this includes those nonbelievers & those that think they know it all). A college professor of mine once told our class that "Criticism can only come from a person in a position to know" otherwise you are just ignorant.
as far as my favorite quote goes... it comes from the Nooma Breathe.
"What's the 1st thing a Baby does-Take it's 1st BREATH, or say the name of God? What's the last thing a person does before they die-Take their last BREATH, or say the name of God?" because whether or not you acknowledge God's existence, He is there & He's all around us & in every one of us.
People can always offer the copout of "well, that's truth to YOU, but it isn't for everyone else", but that simply doesn't work. If everyone has their own definition of truth and no one can really know what the 'true' truth is, we would be embracing Gnosticism.
Every important Doctrine of Christianity is solidly founded on Scripture (which... is where we learn about Christ, making Scripture critical and necessarily inerrant). If we can't agree that our Bible is easy enough to understand the important things, then we are not of the same religion... Just because Rob has had 'more school than us', doesn't mean that he knows the truth anymore than we do. He's in a position of power, and Satan loves to tempt and sway such people. I believe no one is above this, but it means that we should be wary of our leaders and always search Scripture for what the proper response is to their teaching.
Instead of trying to find ways Rob Bell is "wrong", why not just accept a different point-of-view?
There's finally someone in the world who is not afraid to think outside the box and try to reach people who feel the same way he does. I, along, with the thousands of others who support Rob Bell, have the same thoughts about church, and Christianity in general.
Just because you might not personally believe everything Rob Bell says, why not just accept that and move on, rather than trying to prove him a "false prophet."
This isn't said in a negative way, and I'd just like some of you to realize that it's okay for people to think differently, and develop their own opinions and ideas.
Instead of trying to find ways Rob Bell is "wrong", why not just accept a different point-of-view?
There's finally someone in the world who is not afraid to think outside the box and try to reach people who feel the same way he does. I, along, with the thousands of others who support Rob Bell, have the same thoughts about church, and Christianity in general.
Just because you might not personally believe everything Rob Bell says, why not just accept that and move on, rather than trying to prove him a "false prophet."
This isn't said in a negative way, and I'd just like some of you to realize that it's okay for people to think differently, and develop their own opinions and ideas.
I like that people are continuing to bring pieces of something rob bell said. To slander him. Instead of quoting everything was said. They look at one word and one sentence without looking at the full text.
I can't believe someone nameless and irrelevant such as yourself is even bothering to criticise such an inspiring leader in today's world. Rob Bell has brought many people [especially teenage members of youth groups in, say, York, England] to be more open minded and accepting of Christian views. He has brought many people I know to the faith and addressed important issues which I know members of my church were struggling with. Next time you feel like insulting such a brilliant role model, I suggest you confine the petty results to your diary.
I would also like to know what about those comments is wrong? Jesus was Jewish...so the teaching of rabbis can help shed light on the NT sayings and the letter of Paul. Also, somebody said Bell contradicts himself about leaving Calvary chapel. Well, he was the associate pastor but Ed Dobson gave him to ok to leave and sent some members over with him. Calvary chapel is known for doing this. They help train up new pastors and then help them start another community. I would like to know the problem here. I would especially like to know what is wrong with the two quotes that are at the top. Christianity was started in the East..In Israel..
discussing the future of the church is wonderful... but I have to ask the critics of "said" emerging church and more specifically Rob Bell... How can you criticize someone who obviously loves God, prays to God, live out a life that would be honering to God as a heretic??? I would like to admonish that if you talk to "unbelievers" as critics of the emergent church and Rob so often candidly talk about them, DO NOT LIKE THE CHURCH AND MOST DEFINATELY DONT LIKE CHRISTIANS... so if I witness peoples hearts softening because one person is bold enough to try a different way to show them Gods love and make a difference then I commend them here... and I believe whole heartedly that their efforts will be commended in heaven....
oh yes... and was not Jesus revolutionary??? Many Jewish people and in particular their leaders... (remember those pharisee guys??) did not agree or believe in Jesus when he appeared on the scene... was he a heretic? or did he blow the vastness of God wide open... that he did and rock on... the minute you start to put a limit on God is the minute you start to mock his infinite being...
I learned the hard way to be cautious and prudent about believing quotes taken out of context(especially on blogs). My husband and I attended a church in Costa Rica while on vacation, and were shocked to hear an hour and a half long sermon denouncing Rob Bell, Velvet Elvis and the emerging church. We had recently read Velvet Elvis and my husband approached the pastor after the service and asked what book he had read, because it didn't sound anything like the book we had read. The pastor admitted he hadn't read the book, but had spent hours doing "research" on the internet. We encouraged him for his own credibility to read the book before part 2 of his sermon. The next week was more slanderous and inaccurate than the first week, and once again the pastor admitted he didn't read the book. This was a good lesson for both of us as we generally felt safe reading opinions expressed on Christian sites, and we're now very aware of the tendency to react and "spin" without taking the time to check out the whole message. What a shame Christians are so "skiddish" and defensive...makes you wonder how secure they really are in the work of the Holy Spirit. What's happening with the current debate is people in the pews are learning it's not okay to have questions.
Here's an idea...Instead of sitting there judging how well somebody interprets God's word in a way that fits your ideals, why not let God speak in a today kind of voice? Let me explain myself. Not everybody takes in The Message the same way. There's a book titled "They Like Jesus but Not the Church: Insights from Emerging Generations" You might want to read it. It may help shed some light on this issue. God called us to have a relationship but for some reason a good chunk of the church is pushing religion on people. There's a big difference between Religion and Relationship. And I think Bell is trying to encourage believers and non-believers to experience God in a new way. Don't be be religious and know that a person is not called to everyone. His message may not be received by all but it is received by those who need something else besides "in the box" thinking..you know, people with more philosophical or artsy mindsets. We need God to become real in our lives and perhaps God will use someone like Rob Bell to help some of us accomplish that. I mean, if God can use a Donkey...
I never understood why people have a problem with the idea of Christianity being an eastern religion, I mean do a little geography, Israel and its surrounding countries are on the continent of Asia. So how can the religion that came out of Asia, also know as “The East” not be considered eastern?
Regarding the other quote, how is this unbiblical? He did not mention any person that is not identified as a person seeking after the God of the bible.
People it is time to take God out of your pocket, your “personal” God does not mean that he only belongs to you and your personal way of thinking.
I think its really sad that people take a sentence or two of what Rob Bell says and runs away blindly with it. Its even sadder that people do this with the Bible. I read his books and loved them. Of course he stretched the truth about his own story, people who write books to that all the time. But if what he writes is truly his best shot at describing God and Jesus Christ, and it helps people look at God in awe, then who cares? People get stuck in religion - that is, rules and regulations - because its safer than real faith. And thats what his books are about. Maybe if you'd read his books (and the Bible) and thought about who said them, why, the time period, what else they said about the subject, and to whom, you'd be able to understand more.
To make it easier, in Velvet Elvis, Bell does say that at some point you have to have faith in the fact that God wouldn't leave us empty handed, and that the Bible is His Word.
But the principle that God has spoken and the rest is just commentary makes sense to me. I'm ok with trusting God over translators.
Paul (who wrote many books of the New Testiment), along with others, said and demonstrated over and over that as long as you profess Jesus Christ to be the Son of the God of the universe, and do you best do to what he says - which essentially boils down to loving others before yourself - he was good with it. So why not embrace a man who loves Jesus, and is convincing other to do the same, instead of trying to tear him down?
There are people out there who are using the name of God to swindle old women out of their retirement funds, to kidnap young children in Africa and hand them machine guns, and a whole host of other purely evil things. And you're worried about a guy who recognizes that Paul and Mary were human?
Donald Miller said "My most recent faith struggle is not one of intellect. I don’t really do that anymore. Sooner or later you just figure out there are some guys who don’t believe in God and they can prove He doesn't exist, and there are some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove He does exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now it’s about who is smarter, and honestly I don’t care." That kind of sounds like what's going on here.
Arguing about who's right rather than loving each other in the name of God.
Its always sad when people take small quotes to define or defend their point,what you look for you will find.
The sooner we stop getting caught up in who is right or wrong, the sooner we celebrate it what is good.
Of course we have different opinions, different congregations, different views,different pastors; this is what is so beautiful about christ.. he invites us all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIKkvmSNUCY
Hey guys, I just want to encourage you all to go out and be the hands and feet of christ in the world. If all we do is argue about who has better theology, we will never show the world the love of god.(Sometimes it seems like we cant even show it to eachother)I am equally guilty of all of this and I am trying to change.Theology is important but it is not the point. We are all followers of Christ and we are called to love above all else. Love is the greatest command.
I would encourage you to seek truth and prayerfully consider what other people say, but at the same time know that we are by grace for good works.
Thank God we are not saved by correct theology.
in Christ,
Landon
Satan is so clever! Obviously Rob Bell and alot of you out there don't get that. Read the scriptures and see what God says, not Bell.
Rob Bell, to me, is a man of God, who has the heart of a servant. He preaches what Jeus said, which is mostly to provide for the poor, and that my friends, is our main calling. To replicate the redemption through love and sacrifice for those who don't deserve it. As we didn't, when Jesus died for us. So let's not argue over who's right and wrong, and if Rob Bell is evil or not. There are greater issues in the world to be dealt with. Go give your money to the poor, feed the hungry, give your time and all of yourself to something that will change the world around you. Real Christians don't sit at home and argue over something that will make them feel vindicated in their own minds. Go out and be proactive. While you sit here and argue you are truly playing into Satans' hands and purposes. This does not seem like brothers in Christ, rather, foes in Christ. Don't do this anymore.
In response to the post two above this one: "Read the Scriptures and see what God says, not Bell"...that is entirely Rob Bell's point! Many of the people that have posted have taken pieces of his books entirely out of context and twisted them! I would really encourage everyone to read Velvet Elvis or Sex God from cover to cover and hear him out!
you know what.. it really pisses me off everyone constantly riding rob bell saying hes nothing more than a heritic. how about instead of pointing fingers at rob bell and everyone else you disagree with point the fingers at yourself
let me ask you this.. do you know everything about God and the bible and all that? no you dont... the scriptures talk about how we only see in part and we will not see in full until that which is perfect comes (referring to the second coming)..
so if you see only in part them obviously your docterine is flawed. therefore all of you saying rob bell is a heritic your nothing more than a heritic yourself. and seriously people how do you think the world percieves christians being all like this person is a heritic and that person is a heritic? it does nothing but push them away from christ
allow me to refer to a quote by john-paul satre.. "when the rich wage war its the poor who die"
we the body of christ are the rich of the world and the poor is the lost. the entire time were holding guns to each others heads its the poor who are dying. its the poor who are starving for what we have and the entire time were dragging christ name through the mud.
instead of attacking your christian brother how about you go make a difference in the world
Hey,
Don't hate on Rob Bell. I am a teen myself and i can't tell you how often we watch Nooma in youth group, and the discussion that comes from his videos. Rob Bell has inspired me in a way that can only be described as helping me to find my calling in life by opening up and listening to God. When i become a youth minister i pray that i will have words of wisdom to speak such as Rob does. By watching Nooma and listening to what is said, I gain so much knowledge and i can clearly understand exactly what he is saying, and I like that he can deliver such an amazing sermon if you will that is so understandable.
In Christ love.
I have a question that must be defined by everyone on this post.
How do we know if what Rob says is true or false? If you do not have a standard for truth, then it doesn't matter. Now we know there is truth, because regardless of what we believe, something is true.
Do we believe in a God? If you don't, He will not cease to exist, because He is true.
The problem then comes to this. If what Rob Bell says is true, then what are we using as a standard for truth? Rob Bell's words?
Personally, I believe God's Word is the only Truth. Denying this only denies what Christ confirmed, that Scripture is true and will be accomplished as God determined. (Mathew 26-54-56 as only one example).
If you believe in what Rob says or you disbelieve, it will not change the Truth.
Belief in God is the only means to salvation. In Christ alone, In Scripture alone is not just a pat phrase as Rob Bell makes it out to be.
If you can not receive the Word of God, then you can not know the truth. Period.
Rob bell is magnificent in the way he presents scripture, he puts what was written thousands of years ago into a modern world that is critical and observant.
Bell believes that scripture is divinely inspired by God and that it is our duty as Christians to examine and take apart what God is telling us through them. If you read Bel's works, nowhere does he say that scripture isn't central to Christianity or that it is irrelevant to this day and age. Instead, he compels you to examine it for yourself, to figure out what was going on at the time it was written, and see how we continue with these biblical narratives today.
Bell contributes to the ongoing conversation of scripture through questions and contemplations he has specifically derived from scripture and the human condition.
In what way does Bell match up to a 'false teacher' or 'heretic' throough judgment as dictated through scripture?
I believe Bell is merely stating his take on scripture, that there ARE grounded TRUTHS, and that he doesn't have it all figured out, but that he is working towards answering the great questions that have been resonating throughout time:
Where am I?
When am I?
What is the problem?
What is the solution?
It is my opinion that he is doing a great job as well with unifying and strengthening the position that the Bible is a jewish work, not American, but stemming from disciples who were taught and brought up in a Greek/Hebrew world.
Unfortunately, many have have fallen to semiticism when it comes to the Word of God.
*anti-semitism lol whoops
I like how this started off as everyone hating on Rob Bell and then has turned into everyone showing their love and admiration for him and his work!
I'm not going to say much because I feel it's useless to get involved in silly debates like these, but Rob Bell (along with Jay Bakker, Shane Claiborne and Tony Campolo, among others) opened the door to Christ for me and have helped me so much along the way. I watched "Everything Is Spirtual" for the God-knows-how-many'th time last night and it reminded me how brilliant he is. Even if you don't agree with what he says there is no need to label him a heretic and hate on him for offering his view on things.
Does Bell know the truth? No. Do any of us know the truth? No. None of us does. The truth belongs to God, all we're doing is trying to make sense of things and offering our interpretation.
God bless you all!
You guys spend so much time trying to tear down people who don't fit into your theological box. How about investing that time in loving the lost, the least, and the last? Do we not realize that spending our spiritual energies figuring out who has perfect theology and who doesn't is exactly what defined the religious elite of Jesus' day? It makes me sad...
As for quote 1, Western religion sure isn't shining. Some of eastern christian thought is needed over here.
For quote 2, what of his tradition? Traditions are worthless.
These quotes are pointless and have nothing quantitative to draw objection from.
May I ask what part of the Eastern Religion part upsets you? Christianity is an eastern religion. It has it's roots in Judaism, and it was founded and rooted in the east. Why is that statement of fact so upsetting? As for your other statement. I assume you are offended by Rob stating that he has learned things from people who do not share a normal Evangelical tenant of faith. But could it be that no matter where that person is that God could use them. Before you answer do not forget that it was a donkey that spoke truth to Paul. Why could not a nun?
I have only one quote to say to all that defends or not Rob Bell's way of exposing the Word of God:
"Yep!"
(from "Everything is Spiritual")
Let him say things, and if you think that something is not good enough for your faith, apply 1Ts 5:21.
This is pure and simple, isnt it?...
Mark 9:38-40
38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us.
It also seems that you obviously like his work enough to 1. Read it, and 2. Spend time thinking about it, 3. WRITE ABOUT IT. If you don't like it or don't agree don't worry about it. It really is that simple.
I think that being a Christian is about having a relationship with God and you can do that as you wish. I honestly don't believe that the Bible is a handbook on having a perfect life and that it SHOULDN'T be taken literally all the time. If Jesus uses parabels, then whey can't God use metaphors? Just putting that out there. People should interperate the Bible considering the time and the context, not just saying "This is what it says." Personally, I think that Rob Bell is just being real with the people he's talking to. Too often, Christians just get on their high horse. Being real is important, being relavent is important. I think people are just scared to ask questions. I think that people have every right to be terrified of asking questions. But they also have every right to face that fear and ask questions anyways.
Just putting that out there.
From the beginning of time Man has searched for God and in his searchings many religions have emerged. All the contradictions & unexplained mysteries in the Biblical account, in my opinion, are the result of Man's limited ability to comprehend God. However, an effort was launched 4000 years ago by a tribe in the desert and an official Church was launched by Man. Again by Man.Their God had all the traits of humans unfortunately. I believe God is well worth the search and in Man'a limited capabilities all "searches" should be on the table. No one religion is more true than another....only if Man proclaims it. Rob Bell has my unbridled support!
One man's logic is another man's heresy and the theological debate drones on & on & on......while individuals continue on their quest for their spiritual self. God is omnipresent...seek and you shall find.
One man's logic is another man's heresy and the theological debate drones on & on & on......while individuals continue on their quest for their spiritual self. God is omnipresent...seek and you shall find.
The circular argument concerning the Bible as the Word of God goes something like "Who's on 1st?". The Bible is the literal Word of God. Who said so? God. Who did God tell? Man. How did Man know it was God? Because Man was divinely inspired. By whom? God. God inspired Man. Who said God inspired Man? Man......and you are full circle again. This is what Rob Bell is working through to the dismay of the institutional Church.
It seems that many people on this BLOG (as well as much of the evangelical world) have not studied Christian history. I have no problem with people who disagree with Rob Bell. That is fine. We each experience the living Christ in different ways...scripture itself attests to that.
However, Rob Bell is not saying ANYTHING new. One person on this BLOG was defending scripture saying that scripture was not man's opinion. That simply isn't true (1 Cor. 7:12, 7:25; and 2 Cor 11:17). These verses Paul himself says HE along is giving direction and NOT the Lord. How many other times does this happen where Paul forgets to note that?
Listen, historically, Scripture is authoritative and foundational. It is the norm that guides the church. BUT it isn't the end-all-be-all. Jesus is...
If Scripture is perfect and you lift it up higher than everything, then you are breaking the first commandment. Scripture, these pages, are not God nor are they A god. They are different depending on translation and there is not such thing as a perfect translation (if you would learn the original Greek and Hebrew you would know that).
Rob Bell happens to be right....
If you take the text out of context, your left with a con. I suggest reading whole books and not judging based on a few sentences. His style of writing and speaking is extremely unique, having met him myself
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